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welcome to the skeptic Zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic Zone podcast

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episode number 760 for the 30th of April

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2023 Richard Saunders coming to you this

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week from Bend Oregon from the

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headquarters of the skeptoid podcast I'm

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having a few days to get over jet lag

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with my good buddy Brian Dunning and

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we've already sampled a few of the

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wonderful local beers here in Bend and

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he tried to beat me at pool but that's a

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story for another day

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what however are the stories for today

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on this week's episode we're going to

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kick off with an interview with a good

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friend of the skeptic Zone chunder from

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India and this interview is being

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conducted by Adrian Hill and I'm looking

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forward to seeing Adrian Hill next week

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in Canada

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Adrian tatsuabijit about many things

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including

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ayurvedic medicine now this is one

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branch of alternative medicine I know

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only a little bit about so I found this

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interview very interesting following

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that it's the return of the book of Tim

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with Tim Mendham recorded at the skeptic

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Zone Studios and Tim is going to be

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looking at a very early investigation by

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the Australian Skeptics into psychic

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surgery in fact this is Story one in

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volume one of the magazine the skeptic

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published way back in 1981 then to round

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off the show the Trove archives part two

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of our series on Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

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the creator of Sherlock Holmes and this

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week we're going to look for references

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to Conan Doyle's belief in in fairies at

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the bottom of the Garden or fairies in

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the woods a strange story indeed and

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next week next week in the Trove segment

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we're going to be looking at the

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relationship between Sir Arthur Conan

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Doyle a staunch believer in the

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Paranormal and Harry Houdini

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a famed debunker of fake psychics

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now before we start in Australia I

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noticed that the teachers have gone back

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to their uh to their lessons in many

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parts of Australia and to let you know

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I'm thinking about you because I think

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what you do is a a terrific job and it

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can be very difficult and very stressful

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so you teachers out there up and down

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the coast hats off to you but now it's

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time for me to run into Brian dunning's

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Kitchen open the skeptoid fridge what do

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I find I find some lovely cheese Oregon

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cheese well I eat that I hope you enjoy

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thank you

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[Music]

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can count on Adrian

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hello everyone this is Adrian Hill from

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Canada here and I have a really special

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guest and friend with me today babajit

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Chanda is joining me all the way from

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New Delhi India and he is the host of

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the podcast and YouTube channel called

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rationable

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so today I'm really happy to connect

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with Abhijit because we met originally

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in 2018 at cycon and I believe we were

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both really at the beginning of our

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skeptical Adventures is that correct for

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you oh absolutely absolutely I needed

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something to kind of give me that little

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push in the right direction and that's

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what that's what happened right there

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yeah we were sitting in the front row of

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the very first workshop with Susan

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gerbeck and Mark Edward and the two of

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us were side by side we introduced each

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other to ourselves and found out a

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little bit about each other and I

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believe I tried to recruit you to be a

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gsow editor even though I was just in

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training I was just started you're very

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good at sales I'll give you that because

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I did sign up eventually yeah you did

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sign up but then then you decided no

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this isn't quite what you wanted to do

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you wanted to take your own Road and and

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you have done really well so just

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describe a little bit about what you've

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been up to and uh first off I want to

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give you my perspective of our first

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meeting because yes I was in a complete

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stranger to this world to the skeptical

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Society the community and I had walked

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in this was day one I mean I first of

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all I'm actually an introvert most

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people won't believe it but I usually am

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because I I need a lot of energy to kind

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of okay I'm gonna talk to people and I

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just sat down and I was like okay here

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we go and I just I had no expectations

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at all and you were so welcoming and so

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warm and you started chatting with me

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immediately and you've made me feel so

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welcome that it was like okay I can get

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let's do that yeah

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awesome

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Susan will say that because that's the

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first time I met Susan as well that I

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kind of disappeared into the woodwork

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did you know I was out are you kind of

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towering above the woodwork yeah no I

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was really quiet especially around Susan

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because she was at that time to me a bit

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of an intimidating figure just because

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you know she was head of this

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organization that I just joined I didn't

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even know who Susan was but I was when I

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sat next to you that was the very first

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thing from the from scicon and I was

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feeling the same way it's funny but I

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just turned to you and forced myself to

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start talking and it was just very

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comfortable from the beginning so I

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think that's pretty cool I'm so glad

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that is so chill like I thought you were

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like you were like a you know total pro

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at this like hey I've been here a

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million times before I you know I know

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everybody

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I knew nobody it was my first psychon I

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think we just kind of Meant to hit it

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off so I think so fantastic so it's so

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nice to finally interview you and the

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reason that I've asked you to come on

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the show is because I had kind of an

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interesting experience on my last trip

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on our cruise I want to tell you a

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little story that happened we had this

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lovely waiter from India he was from

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Mumbai and we like to be interested in

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people we sit by the people who are

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working on the cruise ship and we just

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like to ask questions and so we were

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just asking him lots of stuff and he was

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a great Storyteller and so he was

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telling us all about his family back

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home and where he lives and where his

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wife's from and what his kids are like

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it was awesome and then a few days later

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we got into his magical cures he was

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very much into ayurvedic medicine and he

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was really trying to teach us about it

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which I found quite delightful but also

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amusing as you would know he had no idea

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that I'm from a skeptical community and

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I didn't think it was the time or the

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place to to set him straight

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exactly and we love to stories so we

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were we were interested but the very

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first thing that he started talking

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about was something called shilojit and

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he said it cured his knees he takes it

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every day it makes him feel much better

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it gives him energy you know the classic

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cure-all type of thing but he he he sold

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it right he really said this is amazing

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stuff and so the first thing I did after

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dinner was reach out to you and ask what

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is this stuff and you had some

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interesting things to say so tell us a

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little bit about this this is um it's

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very it's very interesting it's been in

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ayurveda for a very long time and it's

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called the oil of the Himalayas in some

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ways of the Himalayas it's a black

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greasy substance I'm not sure where it

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comes from and it's a it is something

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that can be found in the mountains but

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it has recently become even bigger

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because there has this brand of alcohol

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line water which has come into the

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Indian market called evocus and it's

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everywhere it's black water it doesn't

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look very appetizing but it's they claim

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that it has a 70 or 80 different

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minerals in it they don't have anything

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written on the ingredients label or the

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nutrition label interesting so they've

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got it written on the front they got

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nothing to show for it in the back what

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they say is is this thing called fulvic

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acid which somehow an acid turns things

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alkaline I don't understand how they

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think that works but that was very

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interesting nonetheless but fulvic acid

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is what they use in this water to make

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it black and they say that it's the same

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kind of stuff that has been that

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basically shilajit is so reading of the

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Wikipedia page which I'm sure Susan

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would appreciate humic substances are

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organic compounds that are important

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components of humus not hummus humus the

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top of the soil the most fertile part of

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the soil which is and peat and coal and

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also it's a constituent of many Upland

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streams dystrophic lakes and ocean water

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now I am not a geologist so I'm not

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really sure exactly what that means but

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basically these humic substances like

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fulvic acid you know organic acids and

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compounds which you know kind of are

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found in such areas and shilajit has

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been one of these things which has been

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in use in ayurveda for a very long time

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and it's supposed to have some magical

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healing properties but as you would

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rightly guess I don't think there have

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been any studies

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reliable randomized control trials done

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on fulvic acids and their effects on

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humans at least none that I could find

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so that's that now of course with

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ayurveda that's that's pretty much what

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everybody even with Homeopathy people

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will swear by it they say it made this

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rash go away and made this go away and

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it's done amazing things for this and

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that but of course it's got absolutely

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no foundation in reality it's all you

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know confirmation bias placebo effect

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and of course returning what is called

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regression to the mean which is

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basically a lot of diseases or disorders

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tend to go back to a more maintainable

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stage where basically it disappears and

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it might come back at a later time but

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people of course associate this with all

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sorts of things that they're doing at

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the time right same mechanism by by uh

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full footballers you know where magic

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undies or soccer necklaces and don't

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wash their socks anyway but it's the

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same mechanism basically so that's the

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that's the science or lack thereof

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behind shilajit wow interesting stuff

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I'd never heard of it before of course I

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had heard of ayurvedic medicine you

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brought it to my attention and of course

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the thing is that a lot of people just

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assume that since this is natural this

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is again the naturalistic fallacy that

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in because it's natural you can just

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sculp it down and there's going to be

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absolutely no side effects so of course

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that is not usually the case there is

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always if there is an effect there will

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be a side effect are there any known

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side effects like risks if you take too

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much Etc

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as far as side effects you shouldn't

272
00:12:07,130 --> 00:12:05,060
consume it raw or unprocessed

273
00:12:09,889 --> 00:12:07,140
you're just gonna lick it off the

274
00:12:12,650 --> 00:12:09,899
mountains well that was one of the the

275
00:12:14,990 --> 00:12:12,660
stories he told us was that you know

276
00:12:16,490 --> 00:12:15,000
memory is fickle so I might not get this

277
00:12:19,790 --> 00:12:16,500
right but what he was saying is that

278
00:12:22,730 --> 00:12:19,800
they'd observed monkeys licking the

279
00:12:25,130 --> 00:12:22,740
rocks that this was oozing out of and

280
00:12:28,190 --> 00:12:25,140
they noticed that these monkeys lived

281
00:12:31,250 --> 00:12:28,200
longer and therefore they thought it

282
00:12:33,050 --> 00:12:31,260
might help humans and it does according

283
00:12:35,630 --> 00:12:33,060
to him I thought that was an interesting

284
00:12:36,889 --> 00:12:35,640
story you haven't heard that one I

285
00:12:39,410 --> 00:12:36,899
haven't heard that one but it would be

286
00:12:42,410 --> 00:12:39,420
an interesting test to do

287
00:12:44,269 --> 00:12:42,420
to see how many people live longer the

288
00:12:46,850 --> 00:12:44,279
ones who consumed shilajit it's going to

289
00:12:49,250 --> 00:12:46,860
be difficult because you know mainstream

290
00:12:50,810 --> 00:12:49,260
medicine has already made people live a

291
00:12:52,610 --> 00:12:50,820
hell of a lot longer than they used to

292
00:12:54,350 --> 00:12:52,620
that's right which is why we are

293
00:12:56,810 --> 00:12:54,360
probably we're living in an age where we

294
00:12:58,910 --> 00:12:56,820
die more of lifestyle diseases and

295
00:13:02,329 --> 00:12:58,920
congenital diseases than we do of

296
00:13:04,990 --> 00:13:02,339
infections that's right yeah well it I

297
00:13:08,030 --> 00:13:05,000
just quickly looked up the monkey story

298
00:13:10,670 --> 00:13:08,040
according to one of the sellers this

299
00:13:13,790 --> 00:13:10,680
monkey story is actually ancient Indian

300
00:13:15,470 --> 00:13:13,800
folklore so it is a story that's been

301
00:13:18,170 --> 00:13:15,480
carried down and passed down it's not a

302
00:13:19,850 --> 00:13:18,180
study and it's monkeys in the Himalayas

303
00:13:21,889 --> 00:13:19,860
would climb to the highest peaks to

304
00:13:23,930 --> 00:13:21,899
collect their sheilajit and they were

305
00:13:26,870 --> 00:13:23,940
said to be able to live for hundreds of

306
00:13:29,690 --> 00:13:26,880
years and possess extraordinary strength

307
00:13:31,490 --> 00:13:29,700
and vitality thanks to the sheilajit

308
00:13:33,290 --> 00:13:31,500
they consumed and they call it the

309
00:13:35,269 --> 00:13:33,300
monkey secret

310
00:13:37,370 --> 00:13:35,279
um as far as humans are concerned I

311
00:13:40,550 --> 00:13:37,380
don't think any of us as any Indians

312
00:13:43,069 --> 00:13:40,560
have lived to that level of uh you know

313
00:13:52,870 --> 00:13:43,079
even the most Ardent Shield youth fans I

314
00:13:57,530 --> 00:13:55,730
by learning about the culture it is

315
00:13:59,090 --> 00:13:57,540
interesting it's where does this stuff

316
00:14:01,670 --> 00:13:59,100
come from I mean it's just it's

317
00:14:03,829 --> 00:14:01,680
anecdotal evidence handed down a few

318
00:14:05,569 --> 00:14:03,839
hundred years yeah uh maybe a couple of

319
00:14:08,050 --> 00:14:05,579
thousand and it's also appealing to what

320
00:14:12,490 --> 00:14:08,060
is that the appeal to Antiquity exactly

321
00:14:17,650 --> 00:14:12,500
Antiquity appeal to Nature appeal to

322
00:14:23,569 --> 00:14:20,389
of course in India monkeys are

323
00:14:26,509 --> 00:14:23,579
considered holy in many ways by many

324
00:14:28,190 --> 00:14:26,519
people because uh especially the you

325
00:14:30,590 --> 00:14:28,200
know the regular none of the male

326
00:14:33,350 --> 00:14:30,600
monkeys are supposed to have uh or be

327
00:14:36,050 --> 00:14:33,360
related to Hanuman who is the monkey God

328
00:14:39,410 --> 00:14:36,060
who was basically Ram's best friend from

329
00:14:43,850 --> 00:14:39,420
ramayan right so Ram is again another

330
00:14:47,389 --> 00:14:43,860
God King now considered a god basically

331
00:14:49,790 --> 00:14:47,399
um the monkey god Hanuman came down to

332
00:14:52,610 --> 00:14:49,800
help him and he he carried Mountains for

333
00:14:55,129 --> 00:14:52,620
him he opened his heart he literally

334
00:14:57,470 --> 00:14:55,139
opened his chest up and showed him the

335
00:14:59,210 --> 00:14:57,480
pureness of his heart etc etc and helped

336
00:15:00,350 --> 00:14:59,220
fight off the bad guys yeah so it's it's

337
00:15:03,769 --> 00:15:00,360
there's a lot of Monkey Business

338
00:15:06,350 --> 00:15:03,779
happening in our myths and legends and a

339
00:15:08,569 --> 00:15:06,360
lot of it is taken very seriously so so

340
00:15:11,449 --> 00:15:08,579
not surprising that this was part of his

341
00:15:14,509 --> 00:15:11,459
his story exactly that makes it uh makes

342
00:15:16,550 --> 00:15:14,519
it even more appealing to most Indians I

343
00:15:18,470 --> 00:15:16,560
would imagine oh fair enough so the the

344
00:15:21,470 --> 00:15:18,480
other thing that he brought up was that

345
00:15:24,889 --> 00:15:21,480
when he was 10 years old he went to a

346
00:15:27,829 --> 00:15:24,899
palm reader and I'm wondering how

347
00:15:31,009 --> 00:15:27,839
prevalent is palm reading in India

348
00:15:33,230 --> 00:15:31,019
it's incredibly prevalent like every

349
00:15:35,090 --> 00:15:33,240
everyone basically I mean every second

350
00:15:37,129 --> 00:15:35,100
person will if you meet at a party

351
00:15:38,629 --> 00:15:37,139
you'll say oh yes I I have done studies

352
00:15:40,009 --> 00:15:38,639
and palm reading and can I read your

353
00:15:42,290 --> 00:15:40,019
poem and they're like oh very

354
00:15:43,910 --> 00:15:42,300
interesting and uh you know they'll go

355
00:15:46,370 --> 00:15:43,920
through with it so I'm you know most of

356
00:15:48,829 --> 00:15:46,380
it is non-serious or people have had

357
00:15:50,810 --> 00:15:48,839
maybe cursory knowledge over read a book

358
00:15:53,509 --> 00:15:50,820
about it or something of that sort some

359
00:15:55,310 --> 00:15:53,519
can be uncannily good at it none that I

360
00:15:57,170 --> 00:15:55,320
have personally met palm reading is

361
00:16:00,230 --> 00:15:57,180
there's a there are institutes in of

362
00:16:02,930 --> 00:16:00,240
palmistry all over the country in fact

363
00:16:06,110 --> 00:16:02,940
um I went on a track once by the time we

364
00:16:09,350 --> 00:16:06,120
reached halfway I was pooped and I sat

365
00:16:10,670 --> 00:16:09,360
down and I noticed a Caucasian man a

366
00:16:12,769 --> 00:16:10,680
young Caucasian man sitting there

367
00:16:15,769 --> 00:16:12,779
peeling peas so I said what are you

368
00:16:18,230 --> 00:16:15,779
doing here if I may ask and he said well

369
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:18,240
I I study at the palmistry school you

370
00:16:22,370 --> 00:16:20,880
know in the town and I just walk up here

371
00:16:25,550 --> 00:16:22,380
every now and then I help these guys

372
00:16:27,590 --> 00:16:25,560
with their bees or whatever else needs

373
00:16:29,990 --> 00:16:27,600
to be done to cook their food and stuff

374
00:16:31,790 --> 00:16:30,000
like so I helped bring up stuff and I

375
00:16:34,610 --> 00:16:31,800
take down stuff I was like oh palmistry

376
00:16:36,650 --> 00:16:34,620
is that's very interesting so uh so what

377
00:16:38,569 --> 00:16:36,660
do you uh how do you you know would you

378
00:16:40,009 --> 00:16:38,579
would like to read our palms so there's

379
00:16:42,650 --> 00:16:40,019
a friend of mine who was sitting next to

380
00:16:43,850 --> 00:16:42,660
me and she showed her palm and he read

381
00:16:44,930 --> 00:16:43,860
it and it's like oh you're not from

382
00:16:47,590 --> 00:16:44,940
around here

383
00:16:50,870 --> 00:16:47,600
it's just obvious I mean she's Chinese

384
00:16:52,370 --> 00:16:50,880
and and he he went on and said a lot of

385
00:16:53,870 --> 00:16:52,380
things and there was a full conversation

386
00:16:56,990 --> 00:16:53,880
happening so she was saying some things

387
00:16:58,910 --> 00:16:57,000
and he was responding and I I thought

388
00:17:01,389 --> 00:16:58,920
okay you know what when he comes to me

389
00:17:03,889 --> 00:17:01,399
I'm not going to tell him anything

390
00:17:07,189 --> 00:17:03,899
he's really good at Cold reading it

391
00:17:08,750 --> 00:17:07,199
sounds like exactly yeah so I just

392
00:17:12,169 --> 00:17:08,760
showed him my palm and I said okay go

393
00:17:16,130 --> 00:17:12,179
ahead what do you think he's like hmm

394
00:17:18,169 --> 00:17:16,140
so uh so what is it that a so you're uh

395
00:17:21,590 --> 00:17:18,179
where are you from I was like you tell

396
00:17:24,409 --> 00:17:21,600
me Ben I ain't saying nothing

397
00:17:26,390 --> 00:17:24,419
you look very hard to read I I think I

398
00:17:28,010 --> 00:17:26,400
think I think we're done for today but

399
00:17:29,450 --> 00:17:28,020
it's all right I mean maybe I'm just not

400
00:17:32,330 --> 00:17:29,460
having a good day I might be a little

401
00:17:35,330 --> 00:17:32,340
bit tired all right no problem it's cool

402
00:17:37,669 --> 00:17:35,340
go back to your peace long story short

403
00:17:40,909 --> 00:17:37,679
the anger it's extremely prevalent

404
00:17:43,430 --> 00:17:40,919
everybody does it and it's seriously

405
00:17:45,950 --> 00:17:43,440
believed it is taken very very seriously

406
00:17:47,390 --> 00:17:45,960
by most people so it's it's not

407
00:17:49,610 --> 00:17:47,400
something that nobody's mucking about

408
00:17:52,549 --> 00:17:49,620
they're very serious about palm reading

409
00:17:55,010 --> 00:17:52,559
interesting well average it has been

410
00:17:57,710 --> 00:17:55,020
such a pleasure talking to you today and

411
00:18:00,350 --> 00:17:57,720
thank you so much and I look forward to

412
00:18:08,110 --> 00:18:00,360
talking again soon it's my pleasure and

413
00:18:13,250 --> 00:18:10,909
has to say check out his YouTube channel

414
00:18:16,490 --> 00:18:13,260
called rationable or listen to his

415
00:18:18,350 --> 00:18:16,500
podcast the rationable podcast found

416
00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:18,360
everywhere that podcasts are available

417
00:18:24,169 --> 00:18:21,360
to get the latest episode soonest the

418
00:18:27,289 --> 00:18:24,179
rationable podcast is now also on

419
00:18:28,190 --> 00:18:27,299
YouTube until next time this is Adrian

420
00:18:46,610 --> 00:18:28,200
Hill

421
00:18:49,010 --> 00:18:46,620
here for those of you who would love an

422
00:18:52,190 --> 00:18:49,020
excuse to visit Calgary besides the

423
00:18:54,650 --> 00:18:52,200
maple syrup and mountains the Western

424
00:18:57,529 --> 00:18:54,660
Canadian reason or we can reason

425
00:19:00,770 --> 00:18:57,539
conference is happening May 5th and 6th

426
00:19:04,690 --> 00:19:00,780
we have a great lineup of both local and

427
00:19:09,529 --> 00:19:07,310
we have science communicator and secular

428
00:19:12,470 --> 00:19:09,539
activist Aaron Raw

429
00:19:13,610 --> 00:19:12,480
host of The Cue drops podcast Courtney

430
00:19:16,090 --> 00:19:13,620
heard

431
00:19:18,289 --> 00:19:16,100
host of the divorcing religion podcast

432
00:19:20,570 --> 00:19:18,299
Janice Selby

433
00:19:23,210 --> 00:19:20,580
co-host of the squaring the strange

434
00:19:24,110 --> 00:19:23,220
podcast and clever caricaturist Celestia

435
00:19:26,029 --> 00:19:24,120
Ward

436
00:19:28,010 --> 00:19:26,039
host of The Thinking Atheist podcast

437
00:19:30,590 --> 00:19:28,020
Seth Andrews

438
00:19:34,070 --> 00:19:30,600
noted pancake eating expert Richard

439
00:19:37,250 --> 00:19:34,080
Saunders I'm so excited he's coming and

440
00:19:39,710 --> 00:19:37,260
me Adrian Hill

441
00:19:41,990 --> 00:19:39,720
and now Richard besides eating pancakes

442
00:19:44,090 --> 00:19:42,000
and Real Canadian maple syrup what do

443
00:19:47,950 --> 00:19:44,100
you plan to do at the conference

444
00:19:51,470 --> 00:19:47,960
well if I'm not too full from pancakes

445
00:19:55,610 --> 00:19:51,480
we might be at the hotel Creek Friday

446
00:19:58,490 --> 00:19:55,620
May 5 at 6 PM that's Calgary time for

447
00:20:01,549 --> 00:19:58,500
registration and fun Celestia will be

448
00:20:03,470 --> 00:20:01,559
drawing all your beautiful faces Lois

449
00:20:07,190 --> 00:20:03,480
Edwards and Adrian will be holding a

450
00:20:10,669 --> 00:20:07,200
trivia competition and I might be

451
00:20:13,490 --> 00:20:10,679
bending a spoon or three because good

452
00:20:18,830 --> 00:20:13,500
things happen in threes and folding some

453
00:20:21,610 --> 00:20:18,840
paper into Pegasus and Magic rabbits

454
00:20:23,510 --> 00:20:21,620
check out the website at

455
00:20:25,850 --> 00:20:23,520
www.weekenreason.com for more

456
00:20:26,930 --> 00:20:25,860
information on speakers hotel and

457
00:20:29,150 --> 00:20:26,940
activities

458
00:20:31,810 --> 00:20:29,160
hope to see you there or you might be

459
00:20:47,590 --> 00:20:31,820
you know sorry

460
00:20:51,510 --> 00:20:47,600
[Music]

461
00:20:53,830 --> 00:20:51,520
and now a reading from the book of Tim

462
00:20:57,020 --> 00:20:53,840
[Music]

463
00:21:02,990 --> 00:20:57,030
with Tim Mendham

464
00:21:05,570 --> 00:21:03,000
[Music]

465
00:21:06,950 --> 00:21:05,580
hi my name is Tim Mendham I'm the editor

466
00:21:09,529 --> 00:21:06,960
of the Skeptics

467
00:21:11,029 --> 00:21:09,539
quarterly magazine the skeptic and I'm

468
00:21:13,669 --> 00:21:11,039
executive officer of Australians

469
00:21:17,450 --> 00:21:13,679
Skeptics Inc today I'll be reading to

470
00:21:20,150 --> 00:21:17,460
you from a very precious document this

471
00:21:23,090 --> 00:21:20,160
is the very first issue of our escaping

472
00:21:25,190 --> 00:21:23,100
magazine which came out as a four-page

473
00:21:27,710 --> 00:21:25,200
tabloid size

474
00:21:30,230 --> 00:21:27,720
rather sort of uh interestingly put

475
00:21:32,990 --> 00:21:30,240
together but it was it's very rare in

476
00:21:35,570 --> 00:21:33,000
fact the copy I have is the only one in

477
00:21:37,370 --> 00:21:35,580
existence uh Tim I've got one okay it's

478
00:21:39,950 --> 00:21:37,380
one of two in existence right there we

479
00:21:42,830 --> 00:21:39,960
have okay now I'm getting our scientific

480
00:21:45,110 --> 00:21:42,840
archivist to bring out the copy uh in

481
00:21:47,090 --> 00:21:45,120
the in the box so we'll thank you

482
00:21:48,169 --> 00:21:47,100
Dolores okay we know Dolores is a

483
00:21:50,690 --> 00:21:48,179
scientist because she's wearing a white

484
00:21:53,029 --> 00:21:50,700
lab coat okay and here we are getting

485
00:21:54,470 --> 00:21:53,039
the copy in front of us it's a bit

486
00:21:57,110 --> 00:21:54,480
fragile so we have to be very careful

487
00:21:58,909 --> 00:21:57,120
with it but here we are this story is on

488
00:22:00,950 --> 00:21:58,919
the front page the first story on the

489
00:22:02,390 --> 00:22:00,960
front page of the first issue of

490
00:22:05,149 --> 00:22:02,400
Australians Skeptics magazine the

491
00:22:08,570 --> 00:22:05,159
skeptic and it represents the first

492
00:22:11,330 --> 00:22:08,580
investigation that we ever did so it's

493
00:22:14,750 --> 00:22:11,340
pretty uh important historically

494
00:22:15,890 --> 00:22:14,760
and it's called Skeptics test psychic

495
00:22:17,390 --> 00:22:15,900
surgeon

496
00:22:19,490 --> 00:22:17,400
it's written by Mark Plummer who was

497
00:22:22,430 --> 00:22:19,500
then at that stage the president of the

498
00:22:23,810 --> 00:22:22,440
skeptic and the editor of this glorious

499
00:22:25,970 --> 00:22:23,820
magazine

500
00:22:27,710 --> 00:22:25,980
now I should point out it's not psychic

501
00:22:29,810 --> 00:22:27,720
surgery as we know it it's a different

502
00:22:31,300 --> 00:22:29,820
sort of psychic surgery but you'll find

503
00:22:35,510 --> 00:22:31,310
that out as we go along

504
00:22:40,310 --> 00:22:37,970
and The Story Goes when a small

505
00:22:43,610 --> 00:22:40,320
paragraph advertisement in the age in a

506
00:22:46,850 --> 00:22:43,620
Melbourne newspaper on January 3rd 1981

507
00:22:49,070 --> 00:22:46,860
stated that an English medium psychic

508
00:22:52,490 --> 00:22:49,080
had the medium as in the spirit world

509
00:22:54,350 --> 00:22:52,500
not half done medium psychic certain

510
00:22:56,870 --> 00:22:54,360
would be commencing practice in

511
00:22:58,130 --> 00:22:56,880
Melbourne the Australian skeptic swung

512
00:23:00,649 --> 00:22:58,140
into action

513
00:23:03,710 --> 00:23:00,659
the advertised numbers were rung and we

514
00:23:05,990 --> 00:23:03,720
were told that Mr Roman di arkov acted

515
00:23:08,690 --> 00:23:06,000
as a medium for deceased surgeons to

516
00:23:10,490 --> 00:23:08,700
conduct psychic operations

517
00:23:13,430 --> 00:23:10,500
an appointment was arranged for an

518
00:23:16,250 --> 00:23:13,440
elderly patient and her son both in

519
00:23:18,350 --> 00:23:16,260
quotes to attend for surgery

520
00:23:21,830 --> 00:23:18,360
the patient was actually 73 year old

521
00:23:24,590 --> 00:23:21,840
medical practitioner Dr Miffy bednell

522
00:23:25,909 --> 00:23:24,600
and her son was magician Mike Wilton

523
00:23:27,289 --> 00:23:25,919
a Committee Member of the Australian

524
00:23:29,690 --> 00:23:27,299
Skeptics

525
00:23:33,110 --> 00:23:29,700
our team is Dr beatnell and Mike Wilton

526
00:23:36,169 --> 00:23:33,120
found that Mr diarkov's clinic located

527
00:23:37,490 --> 00:23:36,179
in a new Villa unit at well I won't give

528
00:23:39,289 --> 00:23:37,500
the address because in the Melbourne

529
00:23:40,909 --> 00:23:39,299
suburb of Q

530
00:23:42,710 --> 00:23:40,919
the family room of the Villa was the

531
00:23:44,450 --> 00:23:42,720
reception area and the receptionist

532
00:23:47,630 --> 00:23:44,460
nurse went to Great Lengths to reassure

533
00:23:50,029 --> 00:23:47,640
the seemingly fragile elderly lady that

534
00:23:52,190 --> 00:23:50,039
there would be no pain we were informed

535
00:23:55,549 --> 00:23:52,200
there would be no blood either as Mr

536
00:23:57,289 --> 00:23:55,559
diaco worked only on the psychic body

537
00:23:59,750 --> 00:23:57,299
at the time surgery was a bit of a

538
00:24:01,669 --> 00:23:59,760
misnomer the nurse assured our team that

539
00:24:03,169 --> 00:24:01,679
operations done to date had been very

540
00:24:05,450 --> 00:24:03,179
successful

541
00:24:08,750 --> 00:24:05,460
the archive left to prepare himself and

542
00:24:10,430 --> 00:24:08,760
under white coat he's a scientist Wilton

543
00:24:12,230 --> 00:24:10,440
was assured he would be able to observe

544
00:24:13,850 --> 00:24:12,240
the treatment in the bedroom which

545
00:24:14,810 --> 00:24:13,860
became the operating theater for the

546
00:24:17,090 --> 00:24:14,820
night

547
00:24:19,250 --> 00:24:17,100
with dim blue lighting and the strains

548
00:24:21,649 --> 00:24:19,260
of Michael Rowe the poker Shore

549
00:24:22,730 --> 00:24:21,659
Dr bednell was laid on the bed operating

550
00:24:27,409 --> 00:24:22,740
table

551
00:24:29,930 --> 00:24:27,419
aircraft slowly stood then walked with a

552
00:24:32,750 --> 00:24:29,940
limp he had adopted the plumbing accent

553
00:24:35,690 --> 00:24:32,760
of a pommy Dr Roberts

554
00:24:37,789 --> 00:24:35,700
Dr Roberts this is the spirit that gets

555
00:24:40,669 --> 00:24:37,799
in his body then examined Dr bednil's

556
00:24:42,049 --> 00:24:40,679
Cranium with a special invisible psychic

557
00:24:44,570 --> 00:24:42,059
microscope

558
00:24:46,190 --> 00:24:44,580
Dr Roberts amazed our team with the

559
00:24:49,250 --> 00:24:46,200
Revelation that the brain was divided

560
00:24:51,950 --> 00:24:49,260
into two halves the left and the right

561
00:24:53,029 --> 00:24:51,960
stunning and was composed of millions of

562
00:24:55,430 --> 00:24:53,039
cells

563
00:24:57,470 --> 00:24:55,440
Dr Robert stated that several of these

564
00:24:59,330 --> 00:24:57,480
naughty cells were misbehaving

565
00:25:01,909 --> 00:24:59,340
themselves this was explained in

566
00:25:04,430 --> 00:25:01,919
layman's terms as being akin to a car

567
00:25:06,230 --> 00:25:04,440
motor with loose spark plugs

568
00:25:09,590 --> 00:25:06,240
the problem explained the treatment

569
00:25:12,169 --> 00:25:09,600
began several special invisible psychic

570
00:25:12,950 --> 00:25:12,179
tubes were inserted through Dr bednar's

571
00:25:14,990 --> 00:25:12,960
head

572
00:25:17,029 --> 00:25:15,000
threaded through the body and came out

573
00:25:19,850 --> 00:25:17,039
through the soles of her feet

574
00:25:21,950 --> 00:25:19,860
then all the quote bad fluids were

575
00:25:24,049 --> 00:25:21,960
psychically drained from her body

576
00:25:25,610 --> 00:25:24,059
in the brain at the feet this was

577
00:25:27,470 --> 00:25:25,620
followed by the passing of hands down

578
00:25:29,450 --> 00:25:27,480
the length of the body and the amazing

579
00:25:30,830 --> 00:25:29,460
discovery that one half of the patient's

580
00:25:32,930 --> 00:25:30,840
brain was hot

581
00:25:35,210 --> 00:25:32,940
more passing of hands followed but

582
00:25:37,190 --> 00:25:35,220
clearly a second opinion was needed so

583
00:25:39,830 --> 00:25:37,200
Dr Roberts

584
00:25:43,010 --> 00:25:39,840
left and missed the archive's body and

585
00:25:45,110 --> 00:25:43,020
Dr Maurice supposedly a deceased French

586
00:25:47,870 --> 00:25:45,120
gynecologist took over

587
00:25:50,029 --> 00:25:47,880
Dr Maurice's French accent had clearly

588
00:25:52,490 --> 00:25:50,039
deteriorated since his death

589
00:25:55,310 --> 00:25:52,500
say nothing of his diagnostic talents

590
00:25:57,350 --> 00:25:55,320
for the diagnosis was that the patient's

591
00:26:00,230 --> 00:25:57,360
stomach pains were caused by displaced

592
00:26:01,730 --> 00:26:00,240
pelvic bones after the birth of her last

593
00:26:04,310 --> 00:26:01,740
child

594
00:26:06,529 --> 00:26:04,320
lying on the bed at Dr beanel couldn't

595
00:26:08,870 --> 00:26:06,539
remember having had any children not

596
00:26:11,090 --> 00:26:08,880
even a miscarriage nevertheless Dr

597
00:26:12,169 --> 00:26:11,100
Maurice also diagnosed deafness in her

598
00:26:13,970 --> 00:26:12,179
left ear

599
00:26:16,130 --> 00:26:13,980
a patient could remember deafness having

600
00:26:17,570 --> 00:26:16,140
ever been a problem either but clearly

601
00:26:19,730 --> 00:26:17,580
this like the birth of her various

602
00:26:22,310 --> 00:26:19,740
children must have slipped her memory

603
00:26:24,110 --> 00:26:22,320
Dr Roberts returned then to wrap up the

604
00:26:25,610 --> 00:26:24,120
post-operative treatment

605
00:26:27,769 --> 00:26:25,620
the good lady would have to come back

606
00:26:29,269 --> 00:26:27,779
for further treatment naturally she

607
00:26:31,669 --> 00:26:29,279
would feel quite tired over the next few

608
00:26:34,070 --> 00:26:31,679
days and must drink plenty of water she

609
00:26:35,810 --> 00:26:34,080
would also pass more fluid than normal

610
00:26:37,250 --> 00:26:35,820
in those night Plummer comments one

611
00:26:39,169 --> 00:26:37,260
would hope that anyone drinking more

612
00:26:40,610 --> 00:26:39,179
water than normal would also pass more

613
00:26:42,649 --> 00:26:40,620
water than normal

614
00:26:44,690 --> 00:26:42,659
a team posed a few more questions for Dr

615
00:26:46,610 --> 00:26:44,700
Roberts to find out that he was a

616
00:26:49,010 --> 00:26:46,620
practicing brain surgeon at Saint

617
00:26:50,510 --> 00:26:49,020
Bartholomew's hospital before dying in

618
00:26:52,430 --> 00:26:50,520
1948.

619
00:26:55,070 --> 00:26:52,440
before more questions could be put Dr

620
00:26:58,430 --> 00:26:55,080
Roberts had to depart leaving us with Mr

621
00:27:00,110 --> 00:26:58,440
diarkov to show our team out the door

622
00:27:02,390 --> 00:27:00,120
the opinion of the Australians Skeptics

623
00:27:04,789 --> 00:27:02,400
testing team in case you haven't guessed

624
00:27:07,130 --> 00:27:04,799
about the utterances are the doctors who

625
00:27:09,409 --> 00:27:07,140
operated revealed a complete lack of any

626
00:27:11,149 --> 00:27:09,419
medical knowledge their diagnosis was

627
00:27:13,430 --> 00:27:11,159
wrong and the Hopeless French accent

628
00:27:16,490 --> 00:27:13,440
merely added to the conclusion that Mr

629
00:27:18,350 --> 00:27:16,500
diakoff was false

630
00:27:20,870 --> 00:27:18,360
have finally confirmed that of an

631
00:27:23,930 --> 00:27:20,880
American Federal Trade Court commission

632
00:27:26,810 --> 00:27:23,940
judgment in 75 that psychic surgery and

633
00:27:28,310 --> 00:27:26,820
psychic healing is pure fakery and fraud

634
00:27:30,049 --> 00:27:28,320
accomplished by the deception and

635
00:27:32,630 --> 00:27:30,059
trickery of the psychic surgeons to

636
00:27:35,330 --> 00:27:32,640
deceive trusting persons into the false

637
00:27:37,070 --> 00:27:35,340
and mistaken belief that human bodies

638
00:27:39,649 --> 00:27:37,080
have been opened with the bare hands

639
00:27:42,289 --> 00:27:39,659
disease material or disease causing

640
00:27:44,690 --> 00:27:42,299
material removed and the incision closed

641
00:27:46,669 --> 00:27:44,700
or without pain or suffering

642
00:27:48,289 --> 00:27:46,679
can Mr dankov

643
00:27:49,850 --> 00:27:48,299
if you can reach him on the advertised

644
00:27:51,409 --> 00:27:49,860
phone numbers please tell him the

645
00:27:53,870 --> 00:27:51,419
Australian Skeptics are wondering how to

646
00:27:56,090 --> 00:27:53,880
explain the item in their books psychic

647
00:27:59,590 --> 00:27:56,100
surgery fee twenty dollars to their

648
00:28:06,649 --> 00:28:02,810
and that's the skeptic magazine volume

649
00:28:09,409 --> 00:28:06,659
one number one page one and the first

650
00:28:11,149 --> 00:28:09,419
test of these Skeptics ever did of a

651
00:28:13,010 --> 00:28:11,159
psychic surgeon not the sort of reaches

652
00:28:16,310 --> 00:28:13,020
into your body but the one who drains

653
00:28:19,430 --> 00:28:16,320
the bad psychic spark plugs out of your

654
00:28:22,010 --> 00:28:19,440
body with the help of a badly accented

655
00:28:24,769 --> 00:28:22,020
French surgeon

656
00:28:28,070 --> 00:28:24,779
and you can read that on the website by

657
00:28:30,529 --> 00:28:28,080
looking up volume one number one on the

658
00:28:32,409 --> 00:28:30,539
website on the magazine section of

659
00:28:35,269 --> 00:28:32,419
skeptics.com

660
00:28:37,850 --> 00:28:35,279
you can download it for free and read

661
00:28:40,130 --> 00:28:37,860
the exciting story of Mr dunkov we'll

662
00:28:46,750 --> 00:28:40,140
hit you like

663
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:51,890
[Music]

664
00:28:58,130 --> 00:28:54,610
foreign

665
00:29:00,950 --> 00:28:58,140
Hall MD known to thousands as the

666
00:29:03,649 --> 00:29:00,960
skeptalk was a retired family physician

667
00:29:05,750 --> 00:29:03,659
and former Air Force flight surgeon who

668
00:29:07,570 --> 00:29:05,760
wrote about medicine so-called

669
00:29:11,870 --> 00:29:07,580
complementary and Alternative Medicine

670
00:29:15,230 --> 00:29:11,880
Science quackery and critical thinking

671
00:29:17,570 --> 00:29:15,240
Harriet produced a free online course of

672
00:29:20,690 --> 00:29:17,580
10 video lectures on science-based

673
00:29:23,269 --> 00:29:20,700
medicine and alternative medicine

674
00:29:25,430 --> 00:29:23,279
the videos and an accompanying course

675
00:29:26,710 --> 00:29:25,440
guide can be found by following the link

676
00:29:30,470 --> 00:29:26,720
at

677
00:29:33,789 --> 00:29:30,480
skipdoc.info or by visiting tinyurl.com

678
00:29:36,110 --> 00:29:33,799
forward slash skep doc series

679
00:29:37,810 --> 00:29:36,120
topics covered in the series are

680
00:29:40,389 --> 00:29:37,820
science-based medicine versus

681
00:29:43,490 --> 00:29:40,399
evidence-based medicine what is Cam

682
00:29:46,010 --> 00:29:43,500
Chiropractic acupuncture Homeopathy

683
00:29:48,730 --> 00:29:46,020
naturopathy and herbal medicine Energy

684
00:29:52,070 --> 00:29:48,740
Medicine miscellaneous Alternatives

685
00:29:54,889 --> 00:29:52,080
pitfalls in research and science-based

686
00:29:57,470 --> 00:29:54,899
Medicine in the media and politics

687
00:29:59,930 --> 00:29:57,480
Harriet covers each Topic in a matter of

688
00:30:02,450 --> 00:29:59,940
fact no-nonsense way that is sure to

689
00:30:04,630 --> 00:30:02,460
educate and entertain

690
00:30:08,630 --> 00:30:04,640
find it at

691
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:08,640
tinyurl.com forward slash skep doc

692
00:30:25,210 --> 00:30:09,890
series

693
00:30:25,220 --> 00:30:29,630
[Music]

694
00:30:36,549 --> 00:30:32,870
now it's time to dive back into the

695
00:30:40,130 --> 00:30:38,630
trove.nla.gov.eu of course the online

696
00:30:42,710 --> 00:30:40,140
resource from the Australian government

697
00:30:46,730 --> 00:30:42,720
and the National Library of Australia

698
00:30:50,510 --> 00:30:46,740
choco block full of digital archives

699
00:30:53,510 --> 00:30:50,520
digital Recreations of newspapers and

700
00:30:55,370 --> 00:30:53,520
magazines and so on now last week we

701
00:30:57,590 --> 00:30:55,380
looked at some references to the famous

702
00:31:00,010 --> 00:30:57,600
author Sir Arthur Conan Doyle the

703
00:31:03,409 --> 00:31:00,020
creator of Sherlock Holmes

704
00:31:06,950 --> 00:31:03,419
and we mentioned the fact that he

705
00:31:09,169 --> 00:31:06,960
believed in fairies at the bottom of the

706
00:31:12,169 --> 00:31:09,179
garden and this was to do with the

707
00:31:13,970 --> 00:31:12,179
cottingley fairies incident and

708
00:31:16,430 --> 00:31:13,980
according to Wikipedia

709
00:31:18,889 --> 00:31:16,440
the cottingly fairies appear in a series

710
00:31:23,110 --> 00:31:18,899
of five photographs taken by Elsie

711
00:31:26,810 --> 00:31:23,120
Wright 1901 to 1988 and Francis Griffith

712
00:31:29,590 --> 00:31:26,820
1907 to 1986 two young cousins who lived

713
00:31:32,990 --> 00:31:29,600
in cottingley near Bradford in England

714
00:31:36,169 --> 00:31:33,000
in 1917 when the first two photographs

715
00:31:39,110 --> 00:31:36,179
were taken Elsie was 16 and Francis was

716
00:31:42,169 --> 00:31:39,120
nine the pictures came to the attention

717
00:31:43,730 --> 00:31:42,179
of the writer Sir Arthur Conan Doyle who

718
00:31:45,710 --> 00:31:43,740
used them to illustrate an article on

719
00:31:48,889 --> 00:31:45,720
fairies he had been commissioned to

720
00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:48,899
write for the Christmas 1920 edition of

721
00:31:54,950 --> 00:31:52,080
The Strand magazine Doyle as a

722
00:31:57,289 --> 00:31:54,960
spiritualist was enthusiastic about the

723
00:31:59,810 --> 00:31:57,299
photographs and interpreted them as

724
00:32:03,230 --> 00:31:59,820
clear and visible evidence of psychic

725
00:32:06,169 --> 00:32:03,240
phenomena public reaction was mixed some

726
00:32:09,169 --> 00:32:06,179
accepted the images as genuine others

727
00:32:12,529 --> 00:32:09,179
believed that they had been fake it goes

728
00:32:14,450 --> 00:32:12,539
on to say in the early 1980s Elsie and

729
00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:14,460
Francis admitted the photograph were

730
00:32:20,269 --> 00:32:18,000
faked using cardboard cutouts of fairies

731
00:32:23,210 --> 00:32:20,279
copied from a popular children's book of

732
00:32:25,730 --> 00:32:23,220
the time but Francis maintained that the

733
00:32:28,190 --> 00:32:25,740
fifth and final photograph was genuine

734
00:32:31,430 --> 00:32:28,200
as of 2019 the photographs and the

735
00:32:33,590 --> 00:32:31,440
cameras used are in the collections of

736
00:32:35,289 --> 00:32:33,600
the National Science media Museum in

737
00:32:38,870 --> 00:32:35,299
Bradford England

738
00:32:41,810 --> 00:32:38,880
and this page also of course has copies

739
00:32:44,330 --> 00:32:41,820
of the photographs themselves with the

740
00:32:47,029 --> 00:32:44,340
two young girls in linear in the garden

741
00:32:48,970 --> 00:32:47,039
in the woods there surrounded by dancing

742
00:32:51,470 --> 00:32:48,980
and flying fairies

743
00:32:55,610 --> 00:32:51,480
and indeed there's a

744
00:32:58,210 --> 00:32:55,620
and exert from a book where the girls

745
00:33:00,649 --> 00:32:58,220
got the original illustrations from

746
00:33:04,190 --> 00:33:00,659
bearing all that in mind let's have a

747
00:33:06,980 --> 00:33:04,200
look at some of the reports as reported

748
00:33:14,810 --> 00:33:06,990
here in Australia

749
00:33:18,169 --> 00:33:14,820
[Music]

750
00:33:21,610 --> 00:33:18,179
started in the year 1920 on the 4th of

751
00:33:25,190 --> 00:33:21,620
December in the Maitland weekly Mercury

752
00:33:29,930 --> 00:33:25,200
fairies photographed Conan Doyle's

753
00:33:34,070 --> 00:33:29,940
theories the times cable London November

754
00:33:37,190 --> 00:33:34,080
25 that fairies actually exist and have

755
00:33:39,649 --> 00:33:37,200
been photographed is seriously asserted

756
00:33:42,769 --> 00:33:39,659
the photographs have been reproduced and

757
00:33:45,470 --> 00:33:42,779
resemble storybook illustrations one is

758
00:33:47,990 --> 00:33:45,480
shown playing a red pipe another is

759
00:33:50,389 --> 00:33:48,000
pivoting on a toadstool

760
00:33:53,210 --> 00:33:50,399
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle suggests that

761
00:33:55,730 --> 00:33:53,220
fairies are a compound of a butterfly

762
00:33:59,389 --> 00:33:55,740
and a human being

763
00:34:01,850 --> 00:33:59,399
and now in the year 1921 the 15th of

764
00:34:05,810 --> 00:34:01,860
January the Daily Telegraph Sydney

765
00:34:08,950 --> 00:34:05,820
the we folk are they fairies so Arthur

766
00:34:11,510 --> 00:34:08,960
Conan Doyle's belief a remarkable story

767
00:34:14,389 --> 00:34:11,520
some very interesting statements in

768
00:34:17,329 --> 00:34:14,399
emphasis of the existence of fairies

769
00:34:19,129 --> 00:34:17,339
were made by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle in

770
00:34:20,770 --> 00:34:19,139
the course of an interview with a

771
00:34:24,109 --> 00:34:20,780
representative of the Daily Mail

772
00:34:27,050 --> 00:34:24,119
Brisbane I consider this the famous

773
00:34:28,849 --> 00:34:27,060
Englishman said and of course Sir Arthur

774
00:34:31,250 --> 00:34:28,859
Conan Doyle was Scottish not English but

775
00:34:33,169 --> 00:34:31,260
never mind to be the greatest thing that

776
00:34:35,149 --> 00:34:33,179
has happened in the way of Discovery

777
00:34:36,050 --> 00:34:35,159
since Christopher Columbus discovered

778
00:34:38,210 --> 00:34:36,060
America

779
00:34:40,010 --> 00:34:38,220
it should be made clear that there is no

780
00:34:43,430 --> 00:34:40,020
distinct Affinity between this subject

781
00:34:46,129 --> 00:34:43,440
and spiritualism proper herein lies the

782
00:34:48,050 --> 00:34:46,139
reason why Sir Arthur Conan Doyle has

783
00:34:50,930 --> 00:34:48,060
not previously touched upon the subject

784
00:34:54,169 --> 00:34:50,940
in Australia I have not ventilated the

785
00:34:56,149 --> 00:34:54,179
question of fairy life he said because I

786
00:34:58,609 --> 00:34:56,159
was afraid it might obscure my main

787
00:35:01,370 --> 00:34:58,619
issue which is of course the survival of

788
00:35:04,730 --> 00:35:01,380
the soul and the conditions under which

789
00:35:06,950 --> 00:35:04,740
it continues its career it was pointed

790
00:35:09,230 --> 00:35:06,960
out to Sir Arthur that cable messages

791
00:35:12,470 --> 00:35:09,240
had already referred briefly to his

792
00:35:14,990 --> 00:35:12,480
belief in the matter and that there was

793
00:35:18,230 --> 00:35:15,000
a possibility of many people confusing

794
00:35:19,069 --> 00:35:18,240
fairies with human Spirits whereupon he

795
00:35:22,010 --> 00:35:19,079
said

796
00:35:24,290 --> 00:35:22,020
well I have no objection to saying a few

797
00:35:26,150 --> 00:35:24,300
words now upon this subject especially

798
00:35:29,810 --> 00:35:26,160
as the Christmas number of the Strand

799
00:35:31,849 --> 00:35:29,820
magazine is due here any day and it will

800
00:35:33,530 --> 00:35:31,859
be found to contain two excellent

801
00:35:36,710 --> 00:35:33,540
photographs of these extraordinary

802
00:35:39,170 --> 00:35:36,720
Little Creatures I look upon it as a

803
00:35:41,890 --> 00:35:39,180
great privilege in my life he continued

804
00:35:45,050 --> 00:35:41,900
that I have been permitted to follow up

805
00:35:47,690 --> 00:35:45,060
the clue which led to this strange

806
00:35:49,849 --> 00:35:47,700
development and which gave actual proof

807
00:35:52,690 --> 00:35:49,859
of the existence of forms of life which

808
00:35:55,730 --> 00:35:52,700
have always been testified

809
00:35:58,370 --> 00:35:55,740
to by certain members of the human race

810
00:36:01,310 --> 00:35:58,380
but which it has hitherto been

811
00:36:02,150 --> 00:36:01,320
impossible to prove the story is briefly

812
00:36:04,310 --> 00:36:02,160
this

813
00:36:06,770 --> 00:36:04,320
two young children living in Yorkshire

814
00:36:08,690 --> 00:36:06,780
were accustomed to play in a wood behind

815
00:36:11,450 --> 00:36:08,700
their house and they continually

816
00:36:14,810 --> 00:36:11,460
described to their father the fairies

817
00:36:18,230 --> 00:36:14,820
which they saw the father an intelligent

818
00:36:20,990 --> 00:36:18,240
working man was quite agnostic and

819
00:36:23,930 --> 00:36:21,000
inclined to be skeptical he was induced

820
00:36:26,329 --> 00:36:23,940
however to allow the children to use his

821
00:36:28,670 --> 00:36:26,339
camera and when they returned in the

822
00:36:31,010 --> 00:36:28,680
evening with actual photographs of the

823
00:36:32,870 --> 00:36:31,020
fairies all doubts were set aside the

824
00:36:36,410 --> 00:36:32,880
family did not attempt to exploit the

825
00:36:38,810 --> 00:36:36,420
fact on the country they rather hushed

826
00:36:41,089 --> 00:36:38,820
it up it was three years after I heard

827
00:36:43,790 --> 00:36:41,099
of the existence of these photographs

828
00:36:46,910 --> 00:36:43,800
and with the help of Mr Gardner a

829
00:36:49,730 --> 00:36:46,920
well-known theosophist I traced them to

830
00:36:52,069 --> 00:36:49,740
their source Mr Gardner got hold of the

831
00:36:54,770 --> 00:36:52,079
negatives and we had them submitted to a

832
00:36:57,890 --> 00:36:54,780
well-known experts who certainly could

833
00:36:59,089 --> 00:36:57,900
not be deceived by Little Village

834
00:37:02,150 --> 00:36:59,099
children

835
00:37:05,870 --> 00:37:02,160
we enlarged the pictures eight foot in

836
00:37:08,690 --> 00:37:05,880
an attempt to find some floor but we

837
00:37:11,089 --> 00:37:08,700
were quite unable to do so

838
00:37:13,069 --> 00:37:11,099
we then interviewed everybody concerned

839
00:37:15,890 --> 00:37:13,079
and found that the family in question

840
00:37:18,950 --> 00:37:15,900
were honest good people quite incapable

841
00:37:20,630 --> 00:37:18,960
of Senseless deception in the meantime

842
00:37:23,450 --> 00:37:20,640
the two children had been separated

843
00:37:26,870 --> 00:37:23,460
apparently it is only when they are

844
00:37:29,270 --> 00:37:26,880
together that their mediumistic power is

845
00:37:32,089 --> 00:37:29,280
such that the fairies can use it we

846
00:37:34,250 --> 00:37:32,099
therefore took some trouble to reunite

847
00:37:37,430 --> 00:37:34,260
the two children after which we put them

848
00:37:39,589 --> 00:37:37,440
once more in the same wood and furnish

849
00:37:41,990 --> 00:37:39,599
them with a new camera I am not at

850
00:37:44,810 --> 00:37:42,000
Liberty to say yet what the results were

851
00:37:48,050 --> 00:37:44,820
as I am not in touch with Mr Gardner but

852
00:37:51,290 --> 00:37:48,060
I can go as far as to say that they were

853
00:37:52,910 --> 00:37:51,300
very astounding and that they surpassed

854
00:37:55,069 --> 00:37:52,920
those which we have published in the

855
00:37:57,109 --> 00:37:55,079
magazine I consider this to be the

856
00:37:59,390 --> 00:37:57,119
greatest thing that has happened in the

857
00:38:02,510 --> 00:37:59,400
way of Discovery since Christopher

858
00:38:05,150 --> 00:38:02,520
Columbus discovered America in fact it

859
00:38:07,849 --> 00:38:05,160
is a larger event than that as it

860
00:38:11,450 --> 00:38:07,859
reveals A Whole New World parallel to

861
00:38:15,950 --> 00:38:11,460
our own and divided by an exceedingly

862
00:38:18,349 --> 00:38:15,960
thin petition which a child's hand has

863
00:38:21,349 --> 00:38:18,359
broken down there are many psychic

864
00:38:24,230 --> 00:38:21,359
children there are many cameras there

865
00:38:26,030 --> 00:38:24,240
are many woods we shall soon learn a

866
00:38:29,810 --> 00:38:26,040
great deal which will make our country

867
00:38:32,210 --> 00:38:29,820
walks infinitely more interesting in a

868
00:38:34,609 --> 00:38:32,220
reply to a question sir Conan Doyle said

869
00:38:37,730 --> 00:38:34,619
he could say nothing regarding the

870
00:38:39,950 --> 00:38:37,740
speech of fairies from the fact however

871
00:38:42,290 --> 00:38:39,960
that a photograph showed one of the

872
00:38:45,109 --> 00:38:42,300
little creatures to be using a small

873
00:38:47,810 --> 00:38:45,119
musical instrument it was evident that

874
00:38:48,770 --> 00:38:47,820
they had their own polity and domestic

875
00:38:51,290 --> 00:38:48,780
life

876
00:38:55,609 --> 00:38:51,300
now there's a word that I was unfamiliar

877
00:38:58,010 --> 00:38:55,619
with polity a form or process of civil

878
00:38:59,690 --> 00:38:58,020
government or Constitution

879
00:39:02,510 --> 00:38:59,700
polity

880
00:39:05,210 --> 00:39:02,520
the photographing question as shown by

881
00:39:08,569 --> 00:39:05,220
Sir Arthur is certainly a very pretty

882
00:39:12,109 --> 00:39:08,579
picture a fairy figure harmonizing with

883
00:39:15,950 --> 00:39:12,119
the best human conception of the we folk

884
00:39:18,589 --> 00:39:15,960
is distinctly seen with a trumpet-like

885
00:39:21,230 --> 00:39:18,599
musical instrument to his lips beside

886
00:39:24,650 --> 00:39:21,240
the girl in a second photograph there is

887
00:39:28,069 --> 00:39:24,660
quite a troop of the daintly Ethereal

888
00:39:30,230 --> 00:39:28,079
figures surrounding the child and in yet

889
00:39:33,770 --> 00:39:30,240
another print the girl is associating

890
00:39:35,329 --> 00:39:33,780
with a quaint little Goblin

891
00:39:38,870 --> 00:39:35,339
well

892
00:39:42,069 --> 00:39:38,880
try to put yourself back in to the

893
00:39:47,089 --> 00:39:42,079
period of these photographs

894
00:39:49,550 --> 00:39:47,099
1917 and this report is from 1921.

895
00:39:51,109 --> 00:39:49,560
it's all very well with hindsight and

896
00:39:52,250 --> 00:39:51,119
looking at these photographs seeing

897
00:39:54,770 --> 00:39:52,260
clearly that they're just cardboard

898
00:39:56,510 --> 00:39:54,780
cutouts but at the time and if you are

899
00:39:58,730 --> 00:39:56,520
especially inclined to believe in these

900
00:40:01,069 --> 00:39:58,740
sort of things as Arthur Conan Doyle was

901
00:40:04,250 --> 00:40:01,079
well

902
00:40:07,130 --> 00:40:04,260
we can all be fooled and now from the

903
00:40:10,490 --> 00:40:07,140
year 1922 on the 9th of December the

904
00:40:11,569 --> 00:40:10,500
daily mail from Brisbane Conan Doyle's

905
00:40:15,470 --> 00:40:11,579
fairies

906
00:40:17,450 --> 00:40:15,480
sir Conan Doyle is at it again he has

907
00:40:20,510 --> 00:40:17,460
just published a book about fairies

908
00:40:23,930 --> 00:40:20,520
Illustrated with portraits of them many

909
00:40:27,230 --> 00:40:23,940
big literary men make the boast of

910
00:40:29,450 --> 00:40:27,240
believing in fairies and such belief is

911
00:40:33,349 --> 00:40:29,460
supposed to indicate great superiority

912
00:40:36,530 --> 00:40:33,359
of mind so Conan nevertheless does not

913
00:40:39,349 --> 00:40:36,540
vouch for the authenticity of the facts

914
00:40:41,810 --> 00:40:39,359
he has gathered however it is quite

915
00:40:46,010 --> 00:40:41,820
probable according to those fairy

916
00:40:49,430 --> 00:40:46,020
stories that the kitty of Tomorrow will

917
00:40:53,210 --> 00:40:49,440
reject granddad's story of Once Upon a

918
00:40:56,569 --> 00:40:53,220
Time with scorn by saying

919
00:40:59,990 --> 00:40:56,579
quote Oh but the fairies I was talking

920
00:41:02,810 --> 00:41:00,000
to today said that those Yarns of yours

921
00:41:06,349 --> 00:41:02,820
are all Bosh they have no record of them

922
00:41:08,030 --> 00:41:06,359
in their history books end quote now of

923
00:41:10,069 --> 00:41:08,040
course there are many more references to

924
00:41:14,410 --> 00:41:10,079
us so Arthur Conan Doyle and photographs

925
00:41:18,349 --> 00:41:14,420
but will end in the year 1983

926
00:41:19,690 --> 00:41:18,359
1983 on the 21st of March the Canberra

927
00:41:23,150 --> 00:41:19,700
times

928
00:41:26,030 --> 00:41:23,160
reputations in tatters so Arthur Conan

929
00:41:30,069 --> 00:41:26,040
Doyle misses Elementary clue famous

930
00:41:33,770 --> 00:41:30,079
fairy photos fakes London Sunday

931
00:41:35,990 --> 00:41:33,780
Australian Associated Press times the

932
00:41:38,270 --> 00:41:36,000
reputations of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

933
00:41:40,730 --> 00:41:38,280
creator of Sherlock Holmes and the

934
00:41:44,030 --> 00:41:40,740
world's most famous fairies are in

935
00:41:45,530 --> 00:41:44,040
tatters Francis Griffith one of the two

936
00:41:48,050 --> 00:41:45,540
girls who created an international

937
00:41:49,670 --> 00:41:48,060
sensation more than 60 years ago with

938
00:41:53,690 --> 00:41:49,680
their photographs of the fairies in

939
00:41:56,569 --> 00:41:53,700
cuttingly Dell near Bingley Yorkshire as

940
00:41:59,630 --> 00:41:56,579
admitted to the times London that the

941
00:42:02,030 --> 00:41:59,640
pictures were fakes and Sir Arthur Conan

942
00:42:06,130 --> 00:42:02,040
Doyle was not simply taken in by two

943
00:42:09,650 --> 00:42:06,140
girls then aged 10 and 16 but actually

944
00:42:12,349 --> 00:42:09,660
misinterpreted a vital clue when it was

945
00:42:15,050 --> 00:42:12,359
staring him in the face desperate for

946
00:42:17,510 --> 00:42:15,060
evidence of the Paranormal when he saw

947
00:42:20,089 --> 00:42:17,520
it was actually a hat pin holding down a

948
00:42:24,230 --> 00:42:20,099
cut out illustration of a goblin

949
00:42:26,690 --> 00:42:24,240
he described it as evidence of a fairy

950
00:42:28,970 --> 00:42:26,700
Naval proof he told Valor researchers

951
00:42:31,370 --> 00:42:28,980
into psychic phenomena that the

952
00:42:32,569 --> 00:42:31,380
creatures reproduced in the same manner

953
00:42:35,870 --> 00:42:32,579
as humans

954
00:42:39,530 --> 00:42:35,880
his findings sparked about a fairy fever

955
00:42:41,930 --> 00:42:39,540
in which Mr Edward L Gardner National

956
00:42:45,050 --> 00:42:41,940
Secretary of the theosophical society

957
00:42:48,349 --> 00:42:45,060
declared that fairies worked inside the

958
00:42:51,829 --> 00:42:48,359
stems of flowers tinted petals and gave

959
00:42:55,609 --> 00:42:51,839
warm green color to the leaves Mrs

960
00:42:57,530 --> 00:42:55,619
Griffis now 76 has been dogged by the

961
00:43:00,230 --> 00:42:57,540
story of the cuttingly fairies all her

962
00:43:02,270 --> 00:43:00,240
life she has promised to reveal the

963
00:43:04,910 --> 00:43:02,280
secrets of the fakes in a book she is

964
00:43:06,710 --> 00:43:04,920
writing she said last week that most of

965
00:43:09,950 --> 00:43:06,720
the photographs were faked using

966
00:43:12,589 --> 00:43:09,960
illustrations and hat pins but insisted

967
00:43:15,170 --> 00:43:12,599
that one was genuine the photographs

968
00:43:19,309 --> 00:43:15,180
were taken by Mrs Griffis and her cousin

969
00:43:21,910 --> 00:43:19,319
Elsie Wright in 1917. LC right now 82

970
00:43:25,430 --> 00:43:21,920
was reluctant to discuss her cousin's

971
00:43:29,870 --> 00:43:25,440
confession but said she was proud of the

972
00:43:33,290 --> 00:43:29,880
one so-called genuine photograph it was

973
00:43:35,750 --> 00:43:33,300
a brilliant idea she said Francis was

974
00:43:38,569 --> 00:43:35,760
not there at the time and I just saw a

975
00:43:41,270 --> 00:43:38,579
way to take it I have never even told my

976
00:43:43,430 --> 00:43:41,280
son and husband how I did it and I will

977
00:43:45,530 --> 00:43:43,440
swear on the Bible that my father had

978
00:43:47,569 --> 00:43:45,540
nothing to do with it but I will not

979
00:43:50,510 --> 00:43:47,579
swear on the Bible that they are real

980
00:43:53,329 --> 00:43:50,520
fairies like her cousin she is also

981
00:43:55,970 --> 00:43:53,339
promising to reveal nearly all in an

982
00:43:57,710 --> 00:43:55,980
autobiography the story of the girls in

983
00:44:00,589 --> 00:43:57,720
their fairies was made into a BBC

984
00:44:03,650 --> 00:44:00,599
television program five years ago they

985
00:44:05,930 --> 00:44:03,660
have always until now insisted the

986
00:44:08,089 --> 00:44:05,940
pictures were genuine the photographs

987
00:44:09,950 --> 00:44:08,099
came to light when the girls after being

988
00:44:12,170 --> 00:44:09,960
scolded for saying they were late

989
00:44:15,230 --> 00:44:12,180
because they were playing with fairies

990
00:44:17,150 --> 00:44:15,240
borrowed a camera and later produced a

991
00:44:20,089 --> 00:44:17,160
photograph of several dancing figures

992
00:44:22,430 --> 00:44:20,099
they took other similar pictures as

993
00:44:24,770 --> 00:44:22,440
their Fame grew the hunt for the truth

994
00:44:26,809 --> 00:44:24,780
about the fairies created small fortunes

995
00:44:29,990 --> 00:44:26,819
for several people but all the girls

996
00:44:33,349 --> 00:44:30,000
received was the equivalent of 36

997
00:44:35,990 --> 00:44:33,359
Australian dollars each now to round off

998
00:44:40,370 --> 00:44:36,000
this segment I'll play a short clip from

999
00:44:41,690 --> 00:44:40,380
a TV series made in the UK in 1991 James

1000
00:44:44,030 --> 00:44:41,700
Randy

1001
00:44:46,910 --> 00:44:44,040
psychic investigator

1002
00:44:50,630 --> 00:44:46,920
now you can find this whole series

1003
00:44:52,430 --> 00:44:50,640
on various places on YouTube but this

1004
00:44:54,470 --> 00:44:52,440
particular episode or this part of this

1005
00:44:56,809 --> 00:44:54,480
particular episode dealt with the

1006
00:44:58,730 --> 00:44:56,819
cottingly fairies the claims of

1007
00:45:02,089 --> 00:44:58,740
spiritualism have been with us for years

1008
00:45:04,550 --> 00:45:02,099
a 1917 two young girls in Yorkshire

1009
00:45:07,010 --> 00:45:04,560
fooled the world with these photos of

1010
00:45:09,470 --> 00:45:07,020
fairies one of their main supporters was

1011
00:45:12,349 --> 00:45:09,480
the great writer Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

1012
00:45:14,210 --> 00:45:12,359
who was a fervent spiritualist himself

1013
00:45:17,150 --> 00:45:14,220
and here we are by the favorite

1014
00:45:19,550 --> 00:45:17,160
waterfall at the back of the right home

1015
00:45:22,250 --> 00:45:19,560
in cottingling where photograph number

1016
00:45:25,490 --> 00:45:22,260
one the most important of all five was

1017
00:45:28,250 --> 00:45:25,500
taken while think of branches behind the

1018
00:45:30,589 --> 00:45:28,260
cutouts I'm taking the place of Brampton

1019
00:45:32,390 --> 00:45:30,599
where you see it with a waterfall that

1020
00:45:34,430 --> 00:45:32,400
was a clue to the whole thing that

1021
00:45:36,290 --> 00:45:34,440
should have tripped everybody off with

1022
00:45:38,870 --> 00:45:36,300
the secret of the host

1023
00:45:41,150 --> 00:45:38,880
the waterfall in the original picture is

1024
00:45:43,250 --> 00:45:41,160
heavily blurred because it took at least

1025
00:45:45,770 --> 00:45:43,260
a 10 second Soldier to break that

1026
00:45:48,890 --> 00:45:45,780
photograph while the wings of the ferry

1027
00:45:51,050 --> 00:45:48,900
are perfectly sharp and clear and those

1028
00:45:54,530 --> 00:45:51,060
wings should have been buttering very

1029
00:45:56,750 --> 00:45:54,540
rapidly an obvious flow but no one

1030
00:45:59,450 --> 00:45:56,760
spotted it

1031
00:46:01,430 --> 00:45:59,460
in later life Elsie explained how she

1032
00:46:04,030 --> 00:46:01,440
used these illustrations from a popular

1033
00:46:07,089 --> 00:46:04,040
children's book

1034
00:46:10,430 --> 00:46:07,099
because the gloves the goals

1035
00:46:13,490 --> 00:46:10,440
and the the glass just around the waist

1036
00:46:14,990 --> 00:46:13,500
and put the wings on and then we cut

1037
00:46:16,849 --> 00:46:15,000
them out

1038
00:46:19,550 --> 00:46:16,859
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and the

1039
00:46:22,069 --> 00:46:19,560
cottingley fairies a wonderful chapter

1040
00:46:24,109 --> 00:46:22,079
in skeptical history

1041
00:46:26,569 --> 00:46:24,119
and you too can find out lots more

1042
00:46:29,770 --> 00:46:26,579
wonderful chapters and articles and

1043
00:46:32,329 --> 00:46:29,780
information when you visit Trove at

1044
00:46:35,510 --> 00:46:32,339
trove.nla.gov dot a u put in your search

1045
00:46:38,490 --> 00:46:35,520
and you never know what you might find

1046
00:46:54,530 --> 00:46:38,500
foreign

1047
00:46:59,030 --> 00:46:56,390
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1048
00:47:01,670 --> 00:46:59,040
Zone podcast on next week's show Tim

1049
00:47:04,870 --> 00:47:01,680
Mendham turns the table on me and

1050
00:47:07,190 --> 00:47:04,880
interviews me about skeptical

1051
00:47:09,470 --> 00:47:07,200
investigations will also have the

1052
00:47:11,450 --> 00:47:09,480
Australian Skeptics newsletter and part

1053
00:47:13,430 --> 00:47:11,460
three of our series on Serato Conan

1054
00:47:16,790 --> 00:47:13,440
Doyle where we look at the relationship

1055
00:47:20,030 --> 00:47:16,800
between Conan Doyle and Harry Houdini

1056
00:47:22,910 --> 00:47:20,040
also coming up on next week's show some

1057
00:47:25,430 --> 00:47:22,920
uh hopefully some interviews from Canada

1058
00:47:26,990 --> 00:47:25,440
from the week and reason conference or

1059
00:47:27,890 --> 00:47:27,000
maybe not maybe it might be a bit too

1060
00:47:31,309 --> 00:47:27,900
soon

1061
00:47:33,050 --> 00:47:31,319
because it is on the weekend anyway I'll

1062
00:47:34,670 --> 00:47:33,060
see what I can do

1063
00:47:36,950 --> 00:47:34,680
thank you to all those people who see

1064
00:47:39,710 --> 00:47:36,960
what they can do and contribute to the

1065
00:47:41,990 --> 00:47:39,720
skeptic Zone at skepticzone.tv Via

1066
00:47:45,589 --> 00:47:42,000
patreon or PayPal your contribution

1067
00:47:49,130 --> 00:47:45,599
means the show keeps going

1068
00:47:52,309 --> 00:47:49,140
but for this week from beautiful bend in

1069
00:47:57,190 --> 00:47:52,319
Oregon this is Richard Saunders signing

1070
00:48:04,089 --> 00:47:59,510
you've been listening to the skeptic

1071
00:48:06,410 --> 00:48:04,099
Zone podcast please visit our website at

1072
00:48:09,470 --> 00:48:06,420
www.skepticzone.tv for show notes

1073
00:48:13,130 --> 00:48:09,480
contacts and to access the back catalog

1074
00:48:14,990 --> 00:48:13,140
of episodes going back to 2008.

1075
00:48:18,589 --> 00:48:15,000
you can follow the skeptic Zone podcast

1076
00:48:20,930 --> 00:48:18,599
on Twitter at skepticzone visit our

1077
00:48:22,250 --> 00:48:20,940
Facebook page or leave a review on

1078
00:48:24,470 --> 00:48:22,260
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1079
00:48:27,770 --> 00:48:24,480
you can also support the skeptic Zone

1080
00:48:31,130 --> 00:48:27,780
via patreon or PayPal the skeptic Zone

1081
00:48:32,809 --> 00:48:31,140
podcast is an independent production the

1082
00:48:34,910 --> 00:48:32,819
views and opinions expressed on the

1083
00:48:37,309 --> 00:48:34,920
skeptic zone are not necessarily those

1084
00:48:38,970 --> 00:48:37,319
of Australian Skeptics or any other

1085
00:48:49,609 --> 00:48:38,980
skeptical organization

1086
00:48:52,930 --> 00:48:51,470
I'm not used to this sort of at least

1087
00:48:56,089 --> 00:48:52,940
more professional

1088
00:48:58,370 --> 00:48:56,099
Tim is in the skeptic Zone Studios and

1089
00:49:01,210 --> 00:48:58,380
he is demolishing the studios the

1090
00:49:03,470 --> 00:49:01,220
paneling's coming down

1091
00:49:05,150 --> 00:49:03,480
they didn't have the mastics well

1092
00:49:07,849 --> 00:49:05,160
honestly yeah yeah and we forgot the

1093
00:49:09,170 --> 00:49:07,859
Black Jelly mate beans I'm leaving I'm

1094
00:49:11,470 --> 00:49:09,180
sorry it's not good enough right the

1095
00:49:15,589 --> 00:49:11,480
beers downstairs

1096
00:49:17,750 --> 00:49:15,599
book of Tim book of Tim let me um can

1097
00:49:20,750 --> 00:49:17,760
you pass me that notepad up there

1098
00:49:22,010 --> 00:49:20,760
get out and all the delicate stuff on it

1099
00:49:23,410 --> 00:49:22,020
all the delicate stuff on it that's

1100
00:49:25,510 --> 00:49:23,420
right

1101
00:49:28,670 --> 00:49:25,520
thank you

1102
00:49:31,190 --> 00:49:28,680
so uh

1103
00:49:34,010 --> 00:49:31,200
bot in other words known as book of Tim

1104
00:49:45,890 --> 00:49:34,020
and this is volume in one and you put in

1105
00:49:53,329 --> 00:49:48,410
it's actually called Skeptics test

1106
00:49:56,510 --> 00:49:53,339
psychic surgeon by Mark Palama ah

1107
00:49:58,430 --> 00:49:56,520
it's only got one okay it is

1108
00:50:00,710 --> 00:49:58,440
all right this is the book of Tim and

1109
00:50:02,050 --> 00:50:00,720
you'll hear me clearly right you can

1110
00:50:05,089 --> 00:50:02,060
hear me clearly yeah

1111
00:50:06,950 --> 00:50:05,099
in the recording it's only your

1112
00:50:08,990 --> 00:50:06,960
microphone right it's going to be used

1113
00:50:10,130 --> 00:50:09,000
all right if we can pick up my stomach

1114
00:50:13,130 --> 00:50:10,140
it's gonna pick up you in the background

1115
00:50:14,870 --> 00:50:13,140
well I won't make it except for when I

1116
00:50:17,450 --> 00:50:14,880
say yes this is the only copy in

1117
00:50:19,550 --> 00:50:17,460
existence right and then you say no it's

1118
00:50:22,790 --> 00:50:19,560
not it's like I've got one I've got one

1119
00:50:26,390 --> 00:50:22,800
please get the line right here can you

1120
00:50:27,470 --> 00:50:26,400
can you believe it okay I'll say it as a

1121
00:50:30,109 --> 00:50:27,480
Greek god

1122
00:50:32,030 --> 00:50:30,119
no no you say there's a rather pathetic

1123
00:50:33,770 --> 00:50:32,040
figure in the background if you want I

1124
00:50:36,170 --> 00:50:33,780
am a rather pathetic figure there we are